Bowling For Columbine is a brilliant film...

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October 10th, 2004, 06:13 PM
White Line Nightmare

Quote:

Originally posted by Joranthalus:
while that's arguable, moore is flat out misrepresenting things. The way he presenting acquiring the guns at the gun store was a flat out lie to the viewers.

You can argue what you like, Jor, but I'm telling you what I was taught in my documentary filmmaking class. It's one of the very first things you learn-- no documentary is 100% truthful.

It starts on day one of shooting: the FILMMAKER chooses what to shoot, what narrative techniques they'll use, how editing will strengthen their argument, etc., so what should be an objective depiction of a topic becomes subjective rather quickly.

I'm sure Moore lies-- doesn't everybody? That's not a defense, but just as I'm sure Moore lies in his films, he also tells the truth. Remember, he's in show business, and he has to entertain (it's one of the best ways to sneak in education). If he has to resort to lying, that's his business, but he IS making a movie, so there might be more leeway, ethically speaking.

My dad used to tell me something as a little boy, and I'll share it with you now:

"Don't believe what you hear or half of what you see."

That applies to life in general, and Michael Moore especially.

[ October 10, 2004 03:14 PM: Message edited by: White Line Nightmare ]
October 10th, 2004, 06:31 PM
StV

Quote:

For me a patriotic fanboy is someone that doesn't want to admit it's own government has and is doing errors, or is flawed into corruption.



fact: this country has freed more oppressed people around the world than all other countries combined!

...I don't know about you, but I feel pretty damn good about that.

fact: no, we're not perfect.

...not everyone is going to like what we do, but that's usually our enemies.

fact: but, we try pretty hard at it. Which is a lot more than anyone else on this crummy planet does!

...who else has sent trillions of dollars around the globe to help the needy? The French? The Germans? The Russians? The Chinese? The Martians?

..."you can't handle the truth!" [img]tongue.gif[/img]

fact: MM is an asshole and I'm not talkin' about Mickey Mouse, either!
October 10th, 2004, 07:29 PM
Guyver

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...president1.jpg

http://www.cthulhuforpresident.com/
October 10th, 2004, 07:46 PM
Joranthalus

Quote:

Originally posted by White Line Nightmare:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Joranthalus:
while that's arguable, moore is flat out misrepresenting things. The way he presenting acquiring the guns at the gun store was a flat out lie to the viewers.

You can argue what you like, Jor, but I'm telling you what I was taught in my documentary filmmaking class. It's one of the very first things you learn-- no documentary is 100% truthful.

It starts on day one of shooting: the FILMMAKER chooses what to shoot, what narrative techniques they'll use, how editing will strengthen their argument, etc., so what should be an objective depiction of a topic becomes subjective rather quickly.

I'm sure Moore lies-- doesn't everybody? That's not a defense, but just as I'm sure Moore lies in his films, he also tells the truth. Remember, he's in show business, and he has to entertain (it's one of the best ways to sneak in education). If he has to resort to lying, that's his business, but he IS making a movie, so there might be more leeway, ethically speaking.

My dad used to tell me something as a little boy, and I'll share it with you now:

"Don't believe what you hear or half of what you see."

That applies to life in general, and Michael Moore especially.

[ October 10, 2004 03:14 PM: Message edited by: White Line Nightmare ]<hr /></blockquote>please don't cndescend. It insults you more than it insults me. I have also taken many film classes and i guess my teachers just had more of a clue than yours.

doc?u?men?ta?ry ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dky-mnt-r)
adj.
Consisting of, concerning, or based on documents.
Presenting facts objectively without editorializing or inserting fictional matter, as in a book or film.

If i make a "documentary" showing mickey mouse entering the twin towers with a box labeled "tnt", and then cut to a scene of the towers falling, it's no longer a documentary.

You can argue what you like, but at that point it's either fiction or a lie. Why do you think Moore is no longer even calling it a documentary?

[ October 10, 2004 04:57 PM: Message edited by: Joranthalus ]
October 10th, 2004, 08:28 PM
White Line Nightmare

Michael Moore will never let a little thing like the truth interfere with his "argument," his films, or, rather, his show.

He's an entertainer, and my goodness, does he ever deliver.

Jor, I apologize if my post sounded condescending. In the past, we've never had a problem with each other on this or any other board, and I'd like to keep it that way (if that's okay with you). Cool?

We shouldn't let someone like Michael Moore disturb what has, generally speaking, been a relatively peaceful community.
October 10th, 2004, 08:42 PM
Joranthalus

no prob here, WLN. I meant that in more of an exasperated kinda way instead of angry anyway [img]smile.gif[/img]

I'm just saying that moore is not a documentary film-maker. So he needs to either stop calling himself that, or make sure his films stay more objective. Personally, i think he does more harm than good... And getting people to not elect bush again would normally be a good thing [img]wink.gif[/img]
October 10th, 2004, 09:38 PM
White Line Nightmare

Quote:

Originally posted by Joranthalus:

I'm just saying that moore is not a documentary film-maker. So he needs to either stop calling himself that, or make sure his films stay more objective. Personally, i think he does more harm than good... And getting people to not elect bush again would normally be a good thing [img]wink.gif[/img]

No disagreement here.

He's not in a class of documentary filmmaker like Errol Morris, who manages to make good, well-made, humorous films without out-and-out attacks, or pandering. He prefers to let his subjects dig their own graves with their own words.

For all his "Gee whiz, aw shucks" midwestern, blue collar demeanor, Michael Moore is a multi-millionaire, a Hollywood player who makes entertainment. His documentaries are as realistic as reality TV.

I guess sometimes the truth ain't so entertaining.
October 10th, 2004, 09:41 PM
Peter Peeker

Quote:

Originally posted by StV:

fact: this country has freed more oppressed people around the world than all other countries combined!

yeah, but you forget to mention that the US oppressed them to begin with...

fact: no, we're not perfect.

...not everyone is going to like what we do, but that's usually our enemies.

doing whatever you please, regardless of anyone else's opinions is generally a great way to MAKE enemies.

...who else has sent trillions of dollars around the globe to help the needy? The French? The Germans? The Russians? The Chinese? The Martians?

after having caused the need for said money. starved any foreigners lately?

fact: MM is an asshole and I'm not talkin' about Mickey Mouse, either!

well, I can't argue with that...

[img]tongue.gif[/img]
October 10th, 2004, 09:48 PM
The Mighty Wolf

Quote:

Originally posted by Joranthalus:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Chosen One:

Is he telling the truth? That is all about opinions, but I'll rather stick to M. Moore stories, and his presented obvious facts and links of the people in power rather than your president's word.

I'm hoping "your president" means you don't live in the US.... there's too many short-sighted, naive, take anything at face value people here already...

the truth is somewhere in between what moore says and what bush says... don't be an extremist [img]smile.gif[/img] <hr /></blockquote>Jor, I'm against any and all governments [img]wink.gif[/img] , I stated 'your' president as an example. [img]wink.gif[/img]
October 10th, 2004, 09:54 PM
The Mighty Wolf

Darth Pooh, did I buy into M.Moore's story, maybe I did. But my point remains that there should be more of him that will have the balls to speak of the other side of the coin in all countries. Although your point is still well taken from my side.

There are elements that I cannot reveal from my personal experiences, and they will only go publically as far as for me to state that I am solely against all governments. They really do hide alot. [img]wink.gif[/img]

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